Home secretary’s aide says Rwanda policy is ‘crap’, in leaked recording

An aide to the home secretary and Conservative parliamentary candidate said the government’s Rwanda scheme is “crap”, in a leaked recording.

James Sunderland, who is running for re-election in Bracknell, was recorded criticising the policy at a Young Conservatives event in April.

In the recording first obtained by the BBC, Sunderland, who is James Cleverly’s parliamentary private secretary, said: “The policy is crap, OK? It’s crap,” before adding: “I have been part of this for the last two years, and I’m immersed in it and I probably shouldn’t say too much.”

Sunderland, who made the comments at an event titled What’s It Like Behind the Scenes at the Home Office, did defend the plan, saying later in the recording: “But it’s not about the policy. It’s about the effect of the policy. It’s the second- or third-order effects.

“In Australia, for example, a similar policy had a devastating effect. There is no doubt at all that when those first flights take off that it will send such a shockwave across the Channel that the gangs will stop.”

Sunderland has been a parliamentary private secretary to Cleverly and worked for his predecessor Suella Braverman.

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Cleverly said Sunderland “used the word crap to grab the attention of the audience”.

He told the BBC: “Whilst the opening words [of Sunderland’s remarks] were clearly designed to shock and grab the attention of the audience, the point he made was absolutely right in the latter part of the quote, which is the effect, the deterrent effect, on the people-smuggling gangs and the people they’re trying to make money from, is what we are seeking to achieve. And he’s absolutely right that in other places where that deterrent has been put in place.”

In November, Cleverly faced questions after reports that he had privately described the Rwanda scheme as “batshit”.

Sunderland also criticised his colleagues including Jonathan Gullis and Lee Anderson for “courting controversy” and “polarising opinion”.

“I’m not saying stupid things,” he said. “I’m not on the front page of the newspaper. I’m doing my job. I can commend hard work.

“If you go out and do what Jonathan Gullis does, or Brendan Clarke-Smith, or Lee Anderson, go out and just court controversy, you polarise opinion. I don’t want that.”

Sunderland told the BBC: “I am disappointed that I was recorded at a private event. I candidly answered questions. I was talking about the response to the policy. The policy itself is not the be-all and end-all but part of a wider response.

“I never criticise colleagues publicly but was asked about the resignations of colleagues from party posts. I honestly answered that we do not need unnecessary rhetoric and division in public life.”

A Conservative party spokesperson said: “Not everyone will like this policy, but having an effective deterrent is the only way to stop the boats.”

Yvette Cooper, the shadow home secretary, said: “The Tories’ Rwanda scheme has been completely exposed as an extortionate and failing gimmick.”